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| Abortion Disussion and Arguments | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2014, 11:58 PM (11,997 Views) | |
| * Yu Narukami | Apr 15 2014, 02:43 PM Post #211 |
Izanagi!
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If that part about proposed legislation is true, then it's quite possibly the most disgusting and pathetic proposition I've heard in my entire life. The social stigma wouldn't disappear if abortion were legalized and available everywhere, that's a fact that's undeniable. However, as simple as this may be, people who oppose abortion just have to deal with it. They don't have to have abortions and they can talk to others in an attempt to dissuade them, but imposing your own views (which are quite oppressive, really) on moral issues such as this through legislation and violence is unacceptable. Legal matters surrounding the legality of abortion currently (such as Roe v Wade) are acceptable, because they're concerned with giving women the right to an abortion, not forcing them into either having one or not having one. The rights of a living woman far outweigh any perceived rights of a fetus that has the potential for life. Edited by Yu Narukami, Apr 15 2014, 02:45 PM.
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| Arkadom | Apr 15 2014, 06:34 PM Post #212 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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Well, my view on abortion is that you need to take into consideration the baby you could have and the mother of the child. From a personal standpoint, I really don't like the idea of abortions, I had a stillborn brother a while back and the way that affected my mother and family in general just made me hate the idea of abortion, that people can willingly give away a life like that, but it also made it clear to me how difficult it is to lose a child at all, so I can only imagine the difficulty of choosing to dispose of one. However, from a logical standpoint, you need to think about the conditions the child could be born into, a lot of cases of abortions are women who can't provide for the child, and know they would not be able to care for it or give it the kind of things it needs, which makes it all the more unfortunate, and I suppose disgusting, when a perfectly capable, safe and able woman just aborts a child because they don't want it, or are pressured by the father or their partner to get rid of it simply because they don't want a child there. That annoys me beyond belief and those are the people that don't deserve the chance to ever have children. However, I do think it's important to think about the mother and her health as well, some birth's might lead to their death, or otherwise seriously affect their life, even if I personally think that sometimes it's a risk worth taking. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Apr 15 2014, 06:52 PM Post #213 |
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Sorry for your mother's loss, Arkadom. I'd like to remind you that there's a huge difference between a potential child who is wanted and expected and loved and thus personified, existing as a person, and so is no longer a foetus. Not to mention that having come all the way through the pregnancy and actually giving birth, one is going to have become more attached and, well, gosh I'm sorry. There really is no comparison. I suspect many women do experience not only difficulty but regret in choosing to abort, but potential regret is not a reason to forego human rights of choice. I also believe that prevention is better than cause - but I'm disinterested in the potential life and more concerned with the potential mother's emotional trauma. Love your post, you've really added something valuable to this topic with personal and objective reasoning. *thumbs up* |
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| Arkadom | Apr 15 2014, 07:08 PM Post #214 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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I would agree with your first point were it not for the fact we found out it had died only 5 months into the pregnancy and my mother just couldn't bare to get rid of it any other way, it had already started decaying by time of birth. I personally am not all that saddened by it any more, it was over a decade ago now, but still, thanks. Anyway, I do think it's very important to care for both the mother and child, I know that if my wife/girlfriend were at risk I'd be more concerned about her, but I know that I'd also greatly love my child and couldn't abort it, which is where I come to a bit of a problem and my only real fear of ever becoming a father. There's also the thought, in my mind at least, of what happens to it after abortion, the fact in most cases foetuses literally just get thrown out into the trash really bothers me, I have no interest in telling people not to do it, I just know from a personal standpoint I wouldn't ever let my own family go through an abortion. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Apr 15 2014, 07:26 PM Post #215 |
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I dunno dude, by 5 months I suspect most people are personifying their potential child unless they don't want it. As for them getting thrown in the trash - no. Like all biological matter removed from people, and animals, during surgery, it'll be incinerated.
Eh, I struggle with the ...Ownership? you imply here. Like, if you're a woman and you say "I would never" that's fine, if its not your body, just... Just think you need to step back and take a deep breath and I'm not saying it ain't hard but don't be that guy who enforces their own views on others. That's called abuse. |
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| Master Gohan | Apr 15 2014, 07:29 PM Post #216 |
 
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I just think that sometimes abortion is for the better. If that baby is going to be born to a mother/father who doesn't want the baby, what kind of life is that? I imagine not being wanted by your own parents must be devastating. And to then learn when you're older that your own mother wanted to abort but couldn't? But also, I think now you can tell early on if the baby will have problems (correct me if its way too early to predict it then) but if you find out the baby is going to have a horrible disability that will make life hard for them? I honestly believe that's a justifiable position to abort in. But it all comes down to our beliefs and abortion will be completely allowed this century at the latest because we are past the point in time where everything we do is regulated by other people's beliefs rather than our own. Edited by Master Gohan, Apr 15 2014, 07:30 PM.
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| Arkadom | Apr 15 2014, 07:38 PM Post #217 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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There are a lot of clinics that don't incinerate though, they just get thrown out, it's a big problem that people have cracked down on a lot, which I'm glad about, but it still happens in some less "official" clinics. What I was getting at with that is that I wouldn't let my own family go through the process of dealing with an abortion, not that I would prevent it, if my wife needed or wanted it then as long as she was entirely sure then I'd allow that, I just don't want my family suffering through that, especially not if there are better alternatives. I don't support the idea of forcing views on others, never have and never will, it's not a case of ownership, it's a case of protection, I don't like the idea of my family having to go through that, because I've witnessed the kind of stress and trauma it puts on the mother, which is why I don't want it. In my view all life is still life, though, to me killing a foetus is still the same as killing a person, just like cutting down the tree is the same as destroying a plant, no they might not be concious beings, but they respire, and they live, that's where my problem is, I'm basically a pacifist to the extreme, I don't like any harm to be done to living things. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Apr 15 2014, 07:44 PM Post #218 |
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This is against the law as it is a biohazard. |
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| Arkadom | Apr 15 2014, 08:02 PM Post #219 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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Which is exactly what I meant by less "official." Back street abortions still happen, as do unprofessional abortions in some areas, I'm aware it's a problem in places such as Mexico. Otherwise, I'm tolerant of the disposal, even if I don't like it. I don't encourage or discourage abortion, really, sometimes it is the best thing to do, the "lesser of two evils" so to speak, I just don't like it due to the effects it has, and the pain involved. The reason I compare it to my brother is not for the sake of how it works, it's for the sake of morality, after losing a brother, I don't really understand how people can willingly throw away the lives of children to be...It just bothers me because some people don't get to choose to give up their children, some are just taken anyway. Edited by Arkadom, Apr 15 2014, 08:04 PM.
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| lunar2 | Apr 16 2014, 12:01 AM Post #220 |
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and this is what i take issue with. it is not other people's opinion of you that gives you value as a person. it is your existence as a human being and your potential future to have a fulfilling life. it is not your past or your present that defines your value (although they can, to varying extent, be used to judge what kind of future you will have), it is your future. it doesn't matter what you have already done, it matters what you will do. your past and your present may determine your importance to other people, but it is your future that determines your inherent value. so, yes. a fetus has almost the same inherent value as a newborn infant, because it has a very similar potential future, barring a few developmental risks it hasn't faced yet. now, a mother may decide that the fetus is not important to her, but that does not change its inherent value, because your value and your importance are two different measures. value is interior, it is defined by your potential and your view of yourself (because your own self esteem is one of the biggest factors in your potential). importance is exterior, it is defined by your history and other people's view of you. |
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